Curse

Moon-Gel · Jun 25, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

when we were gvging tonight, we ran up against a pretty gay ass build.

these are the only things we could pic up from observing the match. we couldnt find most of their skills on the necro

N/A
assassin's promise [e]
soul barbs

N/Me
Mark of Death
Defile flesh
Skill?

2 monks
(I assume 2 boon-prots)

2 ele (e/mo?)
water hexes

2 mes
skills?
(alot of strip enchants, and energy spikes)

so anyway, there was nothing we could do to counter this build. soul barbs would be put up on the person who was going to be spiked, and for every hex put on, additional dmg was added. if we would try to heal out of the soul barbs, that also did extra dmg on top of the hexes being added on. the only way we found out how to heal out of it was mend condition, but that only delayed the inevitable. The spike was clean and fast and there was nothing we could do about it. The guild we faced supposedly tore up EW earlier the same day.
Then we faced a noob guild, which ran the same build, and they destroyed us still, which really pisses me off.
after discussing with teammates, the only way we saw to possibly slow it down was holy veil, which thier mes probably would have snatched away.

My main point is this; is there any way to COUNTER this? we run a standard balanced: 2mo,1 ele, 1 mes, 1 nec, 2warr, 1 ranger. is it possible to counter this build w/ the build we have right now?

MrScaRy · Jun 25, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

this is the soul barbs + recurring inssecurity hex "spike".. there has been some discussion around in these forums just look for it..

Jagan Vastary · Jun 25, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moon-Gel

My main point is this; is there any way to COUNTER this?

If you can stop soul barbs, you stop the spike. From what I've seen, the N/Me carries mantra of resolve/concentration, so gale on a mesmer primary is your best bet to take care of that copy of soul barbs. You can stick your ranger on the other necro and you should be able to interupt his soul barbs as well. The mesmers might have soul barbs too, in which case I'm not really sure what you'd do.

Lady Callingwell · Jun 25, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

convert hexes allows you to get off SB, expell hexes with a proper reaction allow you to pull through covers and possibly get SB or RI. Blessed light/dwayna's kiss are wonderfull bartoppers here (as well as GoH or heal other and the like). That's for the skills part.

More importantly just kite it after you see SB hitting tur around ansd start running, they cant apply all subsequent hexes than.

Also soul barbs being a 2 sec cast is wide open to interuption via interupt skills as well as KD's to provide the interupt.

suiraCLAW · Jun 25, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

I'll try to make a list of counters
- stop soul barbs and/or Recurring Insecurity (gale, shock, interrupts, etc)
- Split (they don't have any speed boosts so)
- If a backline characters see's Soul Barbs flashing on him, he should run away (forcing them to overextend).
- Energy Denial
- Migraine and/or Arcane conundrum
- Diversion spamming
- Nature's Renewal (if you fit it in your build)
- Blessed Light monk (keep in mind that this guy is usefull against most groups, so it isn't really a waste)
- Interupts against everybody without mantra of resolve
- union
- res fast

JR · Jun 25, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Callingwell

convert hexes allows you to get off SB, expell hexes with a proper reaction allow you to pull through covers and possibly get SB or RI.

With the way RI works with the re-application of it, Expell will *always* take it off. It is a fairly solid counter, but on it's own wont give you a win. SuriaCLAW listed some fairly decent counters, but quite honestly they aren't very effective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moon-Gel

so anyway, there was nothing we could do to counter this build. soul barbs would be put up on the person who was going to be spiked, and for every hex put on, additional dmg was added. if we would try to heal out of the soul barbs, that also did extra dmg on top of the hexes being added on. the only way we found out how to heal out of it was mend condition, but that only delayed the inevitable. The spike was clean and fast and there was nothing we could do about it. The guild we faced supposedly tore up EW earlier the same day.

That would have been my guild, Sa. Having just remade from [char] we were looking for a fast way back up the ladder. We went 15-0 with this and fast-cast air spike, and farmed from unranked to 142 in one night.

To give you an example of how broken it is, EW ran TWO Convert Hexes, at least one of which was fast-cast. They still only stopped maybe four or five 'spikes' in the whole game with them.

It is a sick build, and quite honestly 'needs a nerf'. Make Soul Barbs not trigger on hexes that have been re-applied, and that will be game over. I didn't enjoy playing it that much, and hope Anet fixes it soon. Untill they do I would either reccomend running it in GvG, or not GvGing at all.

Patrograd · Jun 25, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Is there anything that would stop you from splitting against this?

suiraCLAW · Jun 25, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

the prob with splitting is that they can have a decent split method (but there spike won't be as unstoppable anymore).

Dzan · Jun 25, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

Is there anything that would stop you from splitting against this?

ITs not really different than splitting against any other spike, except the sb/ri spike can easily kill a boon prot with only 4 people, just not as spikey.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 25, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Hex breaker can help, but good teams will just throw away a random hex on it. Otherwise, just run like mad once you get SB on you. This will force them to overextend and will slow down the hex if they have to start moving to cast.

Keep in mind that it is broken, and beating broken builds without another broken build is hard.

Schorny · Jun 26, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Your best bet is to run away from the spikers, call for a convert und pray to god that your monks can keep you alive the ~3 seconds until convert lands...

splitting works quite decent IMHO, you tear their spikers appart so you got more time to sneak that convert it...

glenn_rolfe · Jun 26, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Your best bet is to run away from the spikers, call for a convert und pray to god that your monks can keep you alive the ~3 seconds until convert lands...

splitting works quite decent IMHO, you tear their spikers appart so you got more time to sneak that convert it...

if you think a split works then you haven't faced this build properly yet. Split they can still spike, albeit a little slower, but a boon laying on enchants will trigger the soul barbs, and eventually you die to it. Because they have more hexes than you have healing.

Playing against it even with caster shutdown and hex removal it was pointless.

Watching Evil struggle against it with expel hexes, 2 diversions, blessed light monk, gale, ranger interrupts, heal other on the e/mo then you know this build is just manipulating a broken skill (soul barbs is mean't to trigger when a hex is cast not re-applied). But enough talk about this build, nerf bat coming...

Corn Sword · Jun 30, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Convert Hexes, and a well coordinated team=gg. I saw a team with one err7 beat soul barbs with convert and organization.

Aiiane · Jun 30, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corn Sword

Convert Hexes, and a well coordinated team=gg. I saw a team with one err7 beat soul barbs with convert and organization.

There are so many groups, some skilled, and some not, running SB/RI now that you really can't draw conclusions from a single game.

Bowstring Badass · Jul 18, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Run back try and not to use enchantments to heal use Sig of Devot , Blessed Light whatever but ya most people use Wastrels worry so use a skill to get rid of it.

Slit Wrists · Jul 19, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Since that build appeared, I now include convert on the me/mo cause fast cast convert really owns this build.

Interrupting one soul barbs won't really help since this build has 2 of them.

Anyway against every spike, the best counter is splitting.

Corn Sword · Jul 19, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Its easy to beat, just out-damage them. Or bring convert hexes.

Vindexus · Jul 19, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corn Sword

Its easy to beat, just out-damage them. Or bring convert hexes.

No it isn't. Convert Hexes will help against every second spike. Being 2s though it won't help once they get someone DPed.

It is also really hard to out damage them. They only need 4 people to kill with so they're likely to bring a Rit with them, or at least a heavy defensive character.

Divineshadows · Jul 19, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

Being 2s though it won't help once they get someone DPed.

Also, even 2s reduced by fast casting allows the spike to interrupt your convert cast using any type of interrupt they choose to bring or heck even a fast cast gale. You pretty much have to running mantra of concentration and be standing in a ward of stability to make sure your convert hexes gets cast as there is nothing else that the spike team is so highly interested in interrupting.

Red Locust · Jul 20, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Getting them to split 4 - 4 should work pretty well if you have a gale in both squads and manage to slip it through everytime they spike. The recharge on soul barbs is long enough that you can keep galing it, and if you're running gale on a fastcast Me/E it's pretty hard to miss or get interrupted.